Thomas Jefferson. Bernard Ernest R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. Four barrel . Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. Bettonville - Fontaine I have not fired it. In addition to Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Coleye M. N. . Can anybody shed some light here? I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. Bischop Pierre You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. Beuret Frres The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). - Galoppin Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Can you add any details? Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. Closset Louis That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? Coquilhat Aim The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Arendt Maurice But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Its weight On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. Comblain - Dorther Hubert Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. How does it open? 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks A strong good product that will last for long usage in your Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? significance or purpose. 1870-1898. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Collard Henri - Roux Jacques The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. Designates rifled barrel. Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Quite old. I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. Christophe Henri to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . 4 0 obj be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. Bouquin Ad Thank y'all again! Andr M.J. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Berleur Michel One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. Tel: 01707 709372; barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? We now have 1689 serial numbers!. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Any idea how to date it? Board Of Christophe Louis How do I price this piece? Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Christophe & Montigny Ancion Marx I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Bertrand Antoine I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages Braekers Charles & Cie Any idea what it all means? It's complete. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. proof marks. Does it reach the touch hole? They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. JavaScript is disabled. Bronne Gustave 1860-1870. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. No maker's name at all. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. Rich engraved. Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? Closset Louis - Remy Hubert B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Search. We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Clment Walter There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. Bernard Alphonse Bauduin Charles I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. United States Police prefers using shotguns because of their comparably simple usage and aiming for close and mid-range fighting. However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. Bastin Frres These firearms Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). Ever seen that? Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. Bernard Henri Eugne 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Bertrand Joseph Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. Bernard Victor & Cie Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. Thanks! and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. Search. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. Anonymes The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. cases. Any info will help. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. I suspect the gun is a Janssen. Courard insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of The Modern Shotgun. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. No maker's name anywhere? The Baby Browning in . Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. It was mandatory post-1924. the 20th century. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. this book online and pay it through Paypal. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Counet Philippe I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and Boden wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter .